Mod forums

[ironchefpython]

We should decide on the core set of mods we want to discuss and build in the short/medium term.

I propose the following list:

Engine: This mod is the basic functions provided by the Engine itself. These would include

• Terrain generation
• Movement (walking, swimming, flying)
• Block placement (with left click)
• Block harvesting (with right click)

Genesis: This mod provides basic single-player and multi-player functionality. This would include

• Block harvesting with tools
• A crafting system
• An inventory system
• A combat system
• Simple friendly and enemy NPCs

Untrue Tao: This mod provides advanced single-player gameplay. This would include.

• Minon/NPC management
• Reputation Systems
• Magic and Technology crafting trees
• other cool stuff

Once we have a consensus about what our immediate gameplay goals are, we should create subforums for each of these mods, so we can focus our gameplay discussions, and leave the development forum for engine development.

 

[Cervator]

Agreed on the structure and need for subforums at this point. Engine, Genesis, and Untrue Tao likewise, tho I always sort of thought Genesis would be a stepping stone towards Tao, and that it would be possibly a slightly simpler version than what is presented here, focusing on the stuff discussed over in the world theme thread (a focus on two cultures showing distinct traits and interactions, but no heavy minion management yet). Also figured it would support multi (without the heavy management)

Then one day beyond that, or in parallel to that, a more DF-like approach. But that's likely beyond short-medium timeframe.

 

[woodspeople]

And one more for mods, meaning a catchall for "every other way of playing that is not these two major game modes but is built on the engine"? That would give somewhere for other new ideas to land that would not clutter up those ideas?

 

[Cervator]

I wonder if there's also a terminology topic in here - yeah, everybody loves terminology talk

Right now we've been fairly vague and ambiguous about mods and modes and so on. Pretty much everything is just stuff following an API. But there are a few categories hiding out in mod-land. A few games have even come up with their own unique terminology that fits into the the game's universe. A possible benefit with that is a break with typical assumptions and confusion between the similar terms used among lots of games - mods, addons, plugins, extensions, etc.

Could we stand to gain from something like that? I'll say that it also does also seem an attractive option to differentiate us, akin to the "crafting" term discussion elsewhere. But more than just being different to be different, putting some functionality behind it might actually help it make sense? Some example categories:

* Snippets / tidbits of simple content. A block, a potion, a creature. Pretty independent and able to function on their own, tho some may depend on a system (like alchemy for potions). Does some of this even use the API? Does a simple block definition being munched for being in the right spot count as API usage?
* Mods - one person putting together several smaller bits and pieces to make a larger "something" ...
* Game modes - a whole way to play the game (creative - Tao - full DF, etc)
* Modifier - akin to a game mode, but dependent on a mode and maybe available for multiple. Examples: Difficulty level, hard core mode (can be separate from difficulty), peaceful mode (no mobs can attack). What is this anyway? Do we need this in the very engine?
* Full conversion - I'm sure we'll eventually find somebody who wants to use the engine to do something totally crazy

Depending on those sorts of things, might that help guide what forums we need?

*General development & suggestions - intro forum for dev topics, anything goes, some stuff might get moved elsewhere when solid enough for us to know what it is (referring to categories above)
*Engine, API, and Core Content - forum for engine work, the API (on the engine side) and core content that might need engine work / relate to a goal game we focus on?
*Resources - snippets & tidbits, light-weight content that can be easily applied to different mods or game styles. Some contributors might like something in this style just so they can drop something in and feel part of everything without getting fancy?
* Larger mods / game modes / conversions

That's fairly different than having Engine + Genesis + Untrue Tao tho. Dunno if better or worse.

Our Xenforo test site is up and I've been wondering about how to set it up - http://movingblocks.mivora.net for those interested, sign up and I'll give you admin rights (or try to, anyway), then feel free to tinker with category setup.

Some, most, or all of this may not make sense, I'm running out of energy for tonight

 

[eleazzaar]

I'd call something that added a block or a creature (or lots of them) an "add-on", if i didn't call it a "mod".

Or you could distinguish between "Content Mods" that add new stuff and/or tweak stuff, and
"Game Mode Mods" that change the way you play the game.

Content mods should generally be compatible with each other, while Game Mode Mods would usually only run one at a time. You might be able to install/uninstall Content mods on the fly, but probably not game mode mods.

 

[dei]

I would propose a dependency design:

Game-Modes are packages of different Mods that fit together and form a well balanced playing-experience.
Their reference on the Mods have a version in it to guarantee stability (and a version of the required core system/engine).

Mods should not exceed a certain area. e.g. focus on an additional mob, change one of the world's settings, extend the userinterface by some buttons. They can't have any dependencies on other mods to reduce complexety and help maintainability.

This way each mod can be developed and maintained by its own developper and is simple enought to be combined with other mods in other Game-Modes than planned from beginning. This all based on the minimal standard settings/mobs... in the core system/engine. (Basic game should use the modding infrastructure too, where possible)

 

[R3B3LCAUSE]

* Full conversion - I'm sure we'll eventually find somebody who wants to use the engine to do something totally crazy

When I learn to program (which I am beginning to work towards) I would love to make 'voxel/cube world' games. This game seems to have the best engine I have seen, and by that time it will be much more developed. Are you saying the engine will be available for others to use?

(Side note; can anyone would suggest what language I should learn first? I am torn between C++ and Java. Which is easier to learn?)

 

[Immortius]

The engine is already available for use - it is open source under the Apache 2.0 license. Ideally a lot will be possible through mods alone, without having to modify the engine, but some things will undoubtedly need to get down to that level - there are always assumptions and sacrifices made in the design of an engine.

I would say Java is an easier language to learn, simply because it provides a lot less options at a language level. C++ can be daunting in the number of different ways to do something, and it takes time to start to understand the pros and cons of different approaches. There are still many ways to do things in Java, but it is relatively less. Also not having to do full recompiles for every change (you can even make changes while your program is running) means quicker turn around when learning from mistakes.

On the other hand C++ is a much more powerful language because of the many options, and because it is a lower level language. And understanding how things work at a lower level is beneficial in general.