Some directional questions / items :)

Cervator

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So I'm realizing I put piles of ideas and such in the wiki without actually confirming an overall direction for the game. So I thought I'd throw a few items in a thread here, answers & discussion will help in presenting the future to others as well (be it other projects or new contributors). So here's a quick list (mostly linked to the stuff already on the http://wiki.movingblocks.net/Blockmania/MajorConcepts page) to confirm our direction:

1) Finite materials - thinking this is a given as so much other stuff depends on it. Not discounting free-build switches or modes, but for the core game I'm thinking you get what you mine / find / trade for and that's it. So a focus on resource gathering

2) Finite inventory - somewhat goes with the above. I'm thinking less inventory space than MC (no stacking massive piles of huge blocks of rock), but still a solid bit more than what you'd realistically expect a humanoid to carry

3) Rarity of materials - some stuff will be harder to find than other stuff, and some materials might not even be in the mix in some chunks or even biomes (encourages travel / spreading influence / trade in multiplayer)

4) Task-specific workshops - to give purpose to having more than a single workbench that can do just about everything. Encourages actually putting functional objects in the different rooms of your giant skull-castle. Ties somewhat to the idea of a "tech tree" or ladder that you climb over time.

5) Survival - both staying alive against hostiles and the environment (food, protection, etc - brings in farming, equipment, and so on). Adds immersion to the world

6) Minions - core game angle to differentiate from others, and a major hook-in for the DwarfFortress / DungeonKeeper part of the overall inspiration. I don't know of any one MC-like that has done minions yet (FortressCraft mentioned it, but hasn't done it, and people have been crying for a multiplayer-DF for years)

* Hooks in with finite resources as minions can be used to harvest stuff (minions harvest slower, but there are more of them)
* Hooks in with finite inventory as minions can be used to haul stuff (minions carry less, but there are more of them)
* Hooks in with rarity as you can cover more ground with minions
* Hooks in with workshops (including residences) to use up more space and material
* Hooks in with survival as some minions can help fight and consume resources themselves
- adds plenty of complexity (especially in multiplayer) but I'd like to think it worth it

7) Sub-blocks - this would be neat and tie into building custom blocks (more workshops!), plus could be used for extra shininess via physics. Can we commit to this being a fundamental goal for the engine? Not looking at heavy physics detail (yet!)

8) Designating blocks - blueprinting, defining rooms, sub-blocking, etc (supporting ability for other features)

The online AI class I'm taking is making me want to code pathfinding for minions already, but need actual minions to pathfind for first! :)
 

begla

Project Founder and Lead Developer
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First of all: I absolutely love your ideas and the overall direction you've been describing/building up the last several weeks. So here are some notes on your points...

1) Yes. I think finite materials will be a core element in our central/core game mode and can not be missed.
2) Sounds okay for me. There should be some option to gradually increase the size of the player's inventory or the amount of stuff he can carry around. Maybe we add "weight" to elements and the amount of weight the player can carry around can be increased during leveling up or by buying new equipment (e.g. bags).
3) This sounds fine to me. Finding rare stuff is always a good option to keep players on the hook. :)
4) Also a very good idea.
5) This is a very important aspect. I'm currently playing a bit of "Dark Souls" now and then and I really like the overall game mechanics and that the game is somehow really difficult. Maybe our game should be a lot harder than Minecraft (but not unfair!). Maybe we'll find some mechanics (e.g. regarding gaining experience points) to make dying something you should be really afraid of. :)
6) I already said that I love the idea of adding worker/minions to the game.
7) This should be a core goal of our engine and it should be adapted early on. So instead of blocks popping into small particles we get blocks that pop into some smaller blocks. That would be the starting point... And here already come the physics into play.
8) Also very cool. Should be also one of our core mechanics.

So you're working on some cool minions? Some evil imps maybe? :D
 

Cervator

Org Co-Founder & Project Lead
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Well, there's a ton of potential for specifics with minions, so much so that I'm not even worried about coming up with "content details" for them until later - that's something non-technical contributors can very easily help with, leaving us to focus on more technical stuff. Like AI pathfinding :)

I've heard of Dark Souls too and really like difficulty in games (thus why I play EVE Online and consider WoW watered down beyond all seriousness at this point). Not sure yet what we can do to aim better for the sweet spot between difficulty and enjoyment, but that's probably another one of the not-so-hard areas to adjust later as long as we get the engine built right.

Some of the stuff in the http://wiki.movingblocks.net/Blockmania/AnatomySystem might be very valuable in making not only a more difficult / adrenaline-fueled game but also add a lot of uniqueness while at it. Dying might make injuries stick for a while, leaving you weakened, while if you survived healing would be faster.

Also agreed on equipment helping inventory space and other conveniences like that.

Thanks for the confirmations - wasn't sure I'd remember right what we've talked about before, but wanted to be solid before talking to others about it all :)
 

Adeon

terasology.ru
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Rasmus, I like your ideas very much! And I have several suggestions

begla said:
First of all: I absolutely love your ideas and the overall direction you've been describing/building up the last several weeks. So here are some notes on your points...
2) Sounds okay for me. There should be some option to gradually increase the size of the player's inventory or the amount of stuff he can carry around. Maybe we add "weight" to elements and the amount
I think, if we have weight, than in most cases the inventory will have empty slots. For example, The player wants to collect rocks. But if we use the weight, then the player will walk with the half empty inventory. Bags will add slots, but `they won't reduce the weight in the inventory. Well, let's suppose that the player uses minions for transporting the blocks. But then the role of the inventory will be reduced mostly. I agree with the idea that we should reduce the size of the inventory. But the only reason is the frequent use of bags and or minions by the player.

3) It's a good idea! I have a suggestion to add the "sea biom". The basic idea is unique stuff, which is located on the sea bottom. But the player must get rid of the water pressure in order to
collect it. And the player should make a survival suit (the stuff for making that could be found not so often) it to get rid of water pressure.

4) I remembered the game "Arcanum", when you said "tech-tree":). I think, we may borrow some ideas from this game. What do you think about it?

5) Oh! I want the Survival mode in Blockmania very much. I think it would be nice to add to mobs more "brains" in this mode. For example communication between several mobs. For example, creepers in Minecraft. I made a fence, onone side of it there are two creepers, and me on the other side. Those two creepers can see me andthey also know they are notable to reach me, because I'm surronded by the fence. Then one of the creepers sacrifices himself by exploding, so that he destroyes the fence andgives the other creeper an oppportunity to reach me. THis is only one of many examples. Also, we can use a combination of monsters. For example, if the zombie sees that the player is attaking a skeleton, than he covers the skeleton.

I didn't play the "Dark Soul", but I played "Blade of darknes". And in my opinion, this game has a rather good combat system.:)
 

Cervator

Org Co-Founder & Project Lead
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Thanks for the feedback! I haven't played Arcanum (tho I recall having seen references to it in the past), would you mind putting some details on it, related to stuff we might consider inspiration for Blockmania, on this wiki page? http://wiki.movingblocks.net/Blockmania ... ationGames - you could also add Blades of Darkness :)

(Incidentally I renamed RelatedGames to MinecraftyGames so we've got two distinct places to put related game info)

On inventory then I like the idea about weight too. We could potentially just "ghost" out additional inventory slots by a single heavy item to show the weight (or even volume - a rock is bigger than a peanut) impact graphically rather than with a number-based weight (tho we could do that too - just nice to have a graphical representation). Or maybe that would just make more sense with volume and leaving weight separate anyway... :cool:

Below-sea stuff sounds cool. Players could need to make an underwater dome before being able to utilize some resources, then plain minions could help out again (if they can get there). That brings up the thought of making some resource types persistent, renewable, or very lengthy to extract so players have reasons to build extraction bases for long-term use.

I've always loved the idea of fancier AI, and could see that as an area of focus for me down the road :)

Dug into caves for the first time today, spiffy! Although the yellowing light from torches make the blocks look like sand, when I think they're stone ;)
 

begla

Project Founder and Lead Developer
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Cervator said:
Dug into caves for the first time today, spiffy! Although the yellowing light from torches make the blocks look like sand, when I think they're stone ;)
That effect annoys me. But I currently do not have a good solution on my mind to fix it (except making the light tint less yellowish) and I like the idea of a warm color for block lights. Maybe playing with the color brings some better results... Mhhh... :?:
 

Cervator

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Torches made out of different materials = different light hues (and flame color)? :)

Maybe make the hue effect less powerful on very close objects somehow, leaving the yellow'ish tint more effectual in the distance? Then you'd more easily be able to make out what stuff up close is
 

Adeon

terasology.ru
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I don't remember whether anybody had ever told that or not... But suddenly a bright idea came to my mind.
What if we added a "crazy bonus" to the game.
For example, if the player will use a pick for a very-very-very long time, then we can give him a bonus that will afford him to handle two picks in both hands.
BUT! The player will not be able to dig two times faster with the help of the two picks, but he'll be able to climb the rocks. (like a rock climber)
 

Cervator

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Double-pick equipped Chuck Norris of cliff-climbing fury? :)

I like creative options for tools and items. Terraria has some interesting items in it, like grappling hooks, clouds in a bottle, jetpacks, etc.. didn't expect that in a builder / fantasy adventurer game.

Not saying we should have a jetpack tho... :D
 
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