unified graphic style

[glasz]

It's probably time we start a discussion on how to set standards for the graphic style of our creatures.

In terms of modeling, the first thing to consider is the polycount. As allways i suppose the budget is "as low as possible", but how low exactly? Minecraft polys are extremely low poly, lower that quake 1 models, wich i think were around 500 tris. With the dwarf model i tried to make something close to the minecraft spirit. I also made this one :

as something closer to the quake 1 approach, its 300 tris.

Agreed most quake 1 models look ugly by today standards, but i think its possible to make something cool with a more stylised/unrealistic approach, and more flat/mangaish texturing.

I prefer that option personnaly, the other seems too limiting in terms of the modeling, and too relying on texturing (wich i'm not good at) for me.

And of course, we can even go for higher polycount depending of what the coders say

As for texturing, i have no specific ideas to share.

 

[overdhose]

I like the idea of flat / mangaish texturing a lot. Would like to see what your model looks like with textures honestly

 

[Cervator]

Can't see that from work (anything attached to posts work tho), but yes, we need to sort this out

My understanding from past discussions is that a few hundred polys is perfectly fine, even in high numbers

One specific consideration is if we want to add the facial cues bit, or other cues beyond the base texture of a block creature. There was some discussion on that - basically keep the overall block approach, but use a small swappable face texture to be able to give more detail there, enough to let the player get an impression of what mood the creature might be in

An alternative would be a simple hovering icon above a creatures head. I'm not sure how easy it would be to fit an expressive face to everything. With the exception of alternatives like expressive tails, etc

Here's a related post: http://forum.movingblocks.net/threads/animals-and-races.319/#post-1943

 

[overdhose]

In the mind of the good enough economics, I would say that you can always add the face texturing later if you decide to use it, I would worry about that after I actually have a moving model in the game, the faces are a feature implemented along the way, and will keep people coming back to see the progress / difference that makes, instead of just waiting 3 more months and then throw an uber mob with 16 facial features out there, which might create a buzz peak and will blow over just as fast...

 

[eleazzaar]

I think it would be wise to keep thing pretty simple and blocky -- if not necessarily exactly as minimalistic as mine craft. Maybe the characters should have articulated elbows and knees. I don't think they should have articulated hands and feet, let alone fingers.

• Blocky, simple forms are more aesthetically harmonious with a voxel world.
• Models with details significantly finer than terrain pixels will seem out of place in the world.
• Bypasses most of the complications with clipping, points of contact, and holding objects that arise with more realistic models -- none of those things are what this game is about, so why not choose an style that lets you mostly ignore them?
• Allows changes of uniform, outfit, and/or equipment in many cases with just a new texture, rather than a new model.

Minecraft and the resurgence of the indie, pixelated 8bit style, has conditioned people to accept rather simplified characters. Take advantage of that "shortcut" so the effort can be put towards implementing the core features, that will make TS fun. You can always come back later after 1.0 and make more complex models if anybody still wants to.

 

[glasz]

Blocky, simple forms are more aesthetically harmonious with a voxel world.

Thats the path everyone seems to take, however at this stage of the voxel game evolution, i'd say there's still room to exepriment and try different things.

Models with details significantly finer than terrain pixels will seem out of place in the world.

Im not advocating super detailed, photorealistic models, just something a little different than minecraft. And as said above, trying to see what else could work seems to me a more fun approach.

Allows changes of uniform, outfit, and/or equipment in many cases with just a new texture, rather than a new model.

True , but it works also with quake 1 like low poly characters.

 

[overdhose]

why not create 3 different models, actually render them in the world and see what the effect is? If to much detail would be out of place, or not? It almost sounds to me we want to make a chicken while we don't even have eggs to grow them from. You might be amazed how you find the golden path once you see 2 different approaches next to each other.

 

[Cervator]

Bump. It seems like we've got three complete or near complete models, from glasz (Jake the dwarf), A'W (DF-style dwarf), and eleazzaar (cutesy critters). We can also support models in-game, and could use some more stuff than the Blender monkey head that'll eventually be obsolete. So yeah, lets throw them in there? I think we just need a .obj

Heck, I think Bi0hax did a for-fun little pony model (and that evil langolier-looking thing!), and Woodspeople's plant studio thing also can pop out .obj - no harm in just putting a bunch in there for now to shake out the system some

 

[eleazzaar]

My critters are just drawings, i don't do 3D modeling. Of course anyone is welcome to turn them into models.

I agree, at this stage, if you have working 3D models-- throw them in. Just so artists understand that inclusion isn't necessarily permanent.

 

[Cervator]

They were just drawings? Dang, looked so complete

 

[overdhose]

Cervator and woodspeople :

so it's ok if I make a couple obj files using the evaluation version of the plantstudio and try to render them? The only thing that stopped me so far is avoiding licensing issues etc. (and the fact I haven't even tried that yet, I presumed exporting would be disabled / restricted)

 

[Cervator]

No problem with me

 

[woodspeople]

Somebody explain this tagging thing to me

Overdhose, you can register PlantStudio and take away the "evaluation" stuff, check the web site download page for the "secret" code to do that. We once sold PS and even though it was getting a good reputation we had to stop because we were too busy working at giant companies paying off the debts we piled up making fun software! Anyway, there are no licensing issues, we never minded people passing the OBJ models around, and since then we open sourced the whole thing so none of it matters anymore. It would be great if you would make some example OBJ files and try them out in TS. It would be kinda cool if PS found some new life in connection with TS.

 

[Cervator]

Tagging - simply put a @ in front of a forum username and it'll "ping" that person

woodspeople - ping!

I haven't noticed if that sends email notification yet, or if that's configurable. I noticed an entry for it in the Alerts up in the top bar of the site.

On PS, especially since it has some partial Java code (no UI, which is exactly what we don't need) I do wonder if you could just outright embed it in-game to some degree and allow the player to tinker with plants in a greenhouse....

Sure, it would take some work, but I imagine that would be pretty novel

 

[A'nW]

Hey all! Been gone awhile (and I probably won't have much time to join in on stuff now, even). Cervator contacted me about that dwarf model I made awhile ago though, so I am putting it up here for use. Hopefully it can be put in the game to see how it looks (at least temporarily). The .obj, .mtl, and the .png texture map are in this .zip. Should be pretty easy to use.

Note: For those who haven't seen it, I attached a picture of the model in question.

 

[overdhose]

looks good... can i slap him??? j/k

 

[Cervator]

Here's Jake the Dwarf from glasz - was linked on IRC, and I wanted to safeguard it on here

Some more discussion going on IRC-style with one of the new artists (joined yesterday) - A'nW, you should idle around up on IRC sometimes too in the weekends if able, eleazzaar too

 

[glasz]

I "lost", i dont know how, the walkloop animation of the dwarf, i'll redo it but for now there's only a idle animation.

 

[Cervator]

IRC log for those interested - some notes on art style buried in there somewhere. And yeah, we really need to get more solid on our style direction

http://pastebin.com/a4DXadjK

 

[glasz]

It would possibly be easier to move forward on the style part if we had a more defined world theme. But maybe for now we could work on things we know we'll need in game no matter what: i'm thinking animals, possibly including the small ambient ones.