Org Co-Founder & Project Lead
Too early, no topic please. First we get one world right
I love the idea of a fundamental dichotomy between technology and nature, science and magic. Technology is death, change, destruction, macro, direct. Nature is life, stasis, creation, micro, indirect. Technology changes the world by excavating huge chunks from the world and building structures of steel and concrete. Nature changes the world by growing living and working spaces out of trees, etching canyons with rivers, and turning clouds into floating islands. Frankly, I'm not worried about balance between the two, given that the player should be free to pick (or switch between) sides at will, and use the best features of both.They probably still need to be able to terraform (majorly change the terrain) or the break between them and the other faction would be too great / too uncharacteristic for a voxel world (major terraforming is a feature). Maybe neither side takes issue with rearranging rocks and dirt.
Haha, nice. Sounds like a potential tagline of ours: "We've got mesmerized cows to milk!"MarcNottke said:By the way, the thought of milking a mesmerized cow is cracking me up!!!!
Yang is action, creation/destruction, force, speed. Yin is reflection, quiet, growth/decay, endurance, patience. Yang is clashing metal; yin is flowing water. Both are strong and weak; powerful and vulnerable; good and evil; but in different ways. If it has worked for thousands of years it should work well in a gameTechnology is death, change, destruction, macro, direct. Nature is life, stasis, creation, micro, indirect.
Or both! The "master of all" or "bridge" or something would take on the even more difficult challenge of learning both and bridging worlds, maybe as a tradesperson or diplomat or spy or assassin or thief. We have just started watching "Avatar: The Last Airbender" and I like how the avatars, because they bridge worlds, hold special powers and special responsibilities. It would not be that hard to make the system support a "blended" mode in which you attempt to encompass both cultures, right? The most ambitious players would take that on. (All right, I admit it: all my D&D players were neutral neutral, and accomplished thieves...)1. Pick your starting culture. Tech or magic.
And yep I'd always vote for having a non-violent option available, for those who want to take on that challenge. For example the game "Beyond Good and Evil" was great because you could choose throughout the game between outright fighting and mostly sneaking. I found the sneaking to be far more interesting: there was more to think about. In my gaming experience sneaking/dazzling/tricking/outwitting/persuading/mesmerizing is more interesting and variable than plain old fighting which is mostly repetition. Although I will readily admit that fighting might be more interesting it if was better set up. Maybe it's just that all the fighting games I've played were mind-numbingly boring.2. One of your "Tools" is a default starting weapon that could be upgraded.
A few more possibilities for goals:4. Goals for the game could be multifold. Winning conditions could be multiple or based in parts:
A. Wipe out the opposing culture via physical attack (this should be prohibitively hard, but possible)
B. Achieve a certain level of cultural or technology development
C. Explore and "claim" a certain amount of territory.
D. Achieve a certain level of resource wealth
E. Deprive the enemy culture of an asset key to their survival (say each culture has one critical element - a certain ore; or a certain sacred lifeform)
I agree that it's nice to have a goal... but I've also been burned so many times on games that had goals I didn't care about. For example in The Sims I didn't start to have fun until I found the monkey tree cheat, which finally allowed me to achieve my actual goals, (a) creating fictional characters from books I like and having them play out their books (The Boxcar Children worked out well); and (b) playing my own life over and over with many interesting variations, none of which the creators of The Sims apparently thought to include. So while I agree that "no goal at all" might not be interesting enough, a goal that bores half the population is also a problem. How about a middle ground where the list is not one or two but, like, five, and they run the gamut in a few interesting axes.... and at least one has to be tailor-made for people who feel burned out on even the idea of amassing wealth and power and levels and carnage...Just because there are achievable objectives doesn't mean the world has to be "limited"; but it does give a player a defined direction that they CAN head in if they choose to (even if getting lost on the way is just as fun).
I dunno, the Tao that can be written in Java is not the true Tao.woodspeople said:Yang is action, creation/destruction, force, speed. Yin is reflection, quiet, growth/decay, endurance, patience. Yang is clashing metal; yin is flowing water. Both are strong and weak; powerful and vulnerable; good and evil; but in different ways. If it has worked for thousands of years it should work well in a game
Open source games are *terrible* at slowly revealing secrets to players. I would prefer to see procedurally generated history and ruins rather than spend a lot of time trying to create a history that is just gonna get copy and pasted on a wiki is 20 seconds.One thing I thought would be really fun is for history to be revealed to players through archeology. As they dig and terraform the earth, they discover ruins of their own cultures through which bits of story can be told. Perhaps the "war" between these two cultures advanced to a point of near annihilation in the distant past?
One thing I've learned about building systems on which to build specification-sets (mods, packages), is that it's useful to build one "starter" set for testing and to show people the potential of the system (and also to make the thing more fun sooner). In this way TS could build its cool tech/magic worldview conflict "instantiation" (perhaps with revealed history) without making it the "hard coded" way things have to be.Keep in mind that as an open-source game, with features like the ones we've described being implemented through a modding API, the "game" we're describing in this thread would only be one of a series of games, all running on the same engine. The ideas about steampunk would be fine for a mod, maybe even an "official" mod that is maintained inside the terasology project, but the discussion of this mod is tangential to the current development milestones.
I agree. I think it's important to create a solid distinction between cultures. "Mystery" vs. "Believable (if fantastic) Reality" is a good way to do that. If it's just two competing technologies I think it waters down the distinction. Whatever our "magic" types are doing I think it's important that we don't know how they do it - even if our programmers do ; )glasz said:I like my magic more mysterious. One alternative i see (certainly not the only one) would be to have magic spirit based. Each ressource, even a stone, has some kind of "spirit" something the spell caster has to negociate with in order to draw a benefit (the tech guys dont negociate, they take and use).